September 29, 2015

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How to make the first move on a date

We haven't done a Q&A in a while and I got a million emails in here, so let's break out a few on making the first move - something that's hard to practice and hard to get right.

Hey Savoy,

Your name came up when I googled female psychology, so I figure you're the one to go to on this. Short story: went on a couple dates with someone, she said let's just be friends, we became friends, she's seeing someone now. I got drunk and confessed that I used to be really in to her. She told me the same thing and asked why I didn't pursue her. Ummm....I did? She was the one who said Let's Just be Friends when I asked her out. I wish I'd asked her when we were drunk and sharing secrets, but now we're sober so I have to ask you.

- Dale E., Muncie, IN

Hi Dale,

I took a semester of Latin in school. Don't remember much, but the phrase in vino veritas stuck with me. In wine, there is truth.

I wasn't on either of your dates but I'd bet my left ear that you did not touch her or make more than a half-hearted attempt to kiss her. In her mind, this guy keeps asking her out on dates but then acts like her girlfriend.

By the way, I get it. You can be damned if you do, damned if you don't. Touch when she doesn't want to be touched and you're creepy, don't touch when she wants to be touched and you're asexual.

I have three recommendations to handle these types of situations. Follow all three - you can't cherry-pick, or this doesn't work:

  1. Err on the side of going too far instead of not far enough.
  2. When she says no or stop, stop. (This is beyond obvious but when I'm writing for millions in this newsletter, it only takes one idiot to do something crazy and then blame me.)
  3. Stopping doesn't mean apologizing. Stopping doesn't mean you can't do something else, or try again later (unless that's what she's asking you to stop).

Or, to quote my lovely and beautiful ex-girlfriend Diana: "I don't fuck on the first date. But I don't respect a guy who doesn't even try."


Dear Savoy,

When do you go for the kiss?

- Lawrence V., Portsmouth UK

Hi Lawrence,

It depends on whether it's day game, night game, or a date. Full-on makeouts in day game are rare - I wouldn't bother unless she's already at your place. On a date, you want to go for the kiss at the first emotional high point - do not wait until the end of the night.

You might be surprised to learn that Love Systems instructors differ in terms of when they go for the kiss at a bar or a party. Some ramp up the sexual tension but don't kiss until they've left the venue. Some (like me) will kiss to establish that it's "on" but after that will tease and try to raise the sexual tension. Others will go heavily sexual right then and there.

I think the reason why instructors differ so much on this one is because it doesn't really matter. If there was an advantage to one approach or another, we'd have all gravitated to it (like we did with day game makeouts and first date kisses). But at the same time, there are only three options. Failure to kiss OR to ramp up the sexual tension sets you up for a one-way trip to Let's Just Be Friends.

-Nick (Savoy)


Hey Savoy,

What do you do when it's really "on" with a girl but she's with her friends?

- Jeremy C., Seattle, WA

Hi Jeremy,

You mean, like, most of the time? Women don't usually do social stuff alone.

Most women don't want to make out in front of their friends. But if there's just one friend, and the friend seems to like me or approve of me, then I might playfully "blindfold" her (put my hand over her eyes) to kiss the girl I'm talking to. It's playful and fun more than sexual and kinky, if that helps explain.

Otherwise, you'll need to separate her from her friends. That sounds really sinister and creepy, but it's not meant to be. If she's into you, she'll want you to help her separate from her friends so she can explore her interest in you without everyone watching and gossiping. If she's not, she won't let you separate her from them.

Really, what she wants to see her (consciously or subconsciously) is that you have the balls to go for what you want, that you can lead, that you have social skills to maneuver through this situation, and that you understanding dating dynamics and female psychology enough that you're not going to expect her to do all the work.

So, take her hand and lead her. Ask her to keep you company while you order another drink, or have a cigarette outside, or look for your friends. Tell her friends that you'll be right over there and they're welcome to come join you if they get bored before you come back. Don't ask permission - they'll stop you if they object.

And then - be a man.


Nick Savoy
Nick Savoy

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